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What really drives the immigration debate? It’s people, not politics.

Join us for the “Only in America with Ali Noorani” podcast to hear how Americans from all walks of life and from across the political spectrum are experiencing changes in their communities as a result of immigration.

Faith leaders, law enforcement officials, business owners and others speak openly about the way culture, identity and values are shaping and defining our country, and they offer a constructive way forward in the immigration debate.

Jan 15, 2020

For the first episode of our new border series, Ali talks to Jason De León, a MacArthur Genius Fellow and author of The Land of Open Graves. Jason has explored the human consequences of deterrence policies through an in-depth anthropological study of crossings through the Sonoran desert — and how deterrence has failed to turn away border-crossers for two decades. His current project, Hostile Terrain 94, is a global exhibition that displays thousands of toe tags of people who have died or gone missing while traveling through the desert.

Jason tells Ali about the journeys of people who unsuccessfully made dozens of attempts to cross the border — and the objects and bodies left behind.